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	<title>
	Comments on: Dr. George Markowsky&#8217;s &#8220;Misconceptions about the Golden Ratio&#8221; Reviewed	</title>
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	<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/</link>
	<description>Golden Ratio, Phi, 1.618, and Fibonacci in Math, Nature, Art, Design, Beauty and the Face. One source with over 100 articles and latest findings.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2021 15:18:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Gary B Meisner		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-6229</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary B Meisner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2021 15:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-6229</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-6224&quot;&gt;R. Mashlan&lt;/a&gt;.

Your comments are spot on:

&lt;ol&gt;
- Euclid&#039;s Elements was THE geometry textbook for centuries after it was written in about 300 BC, only being replaced by other geometry textbooks in modern times.
- Elements has at least 10 propositions that describe the cut of extreme and mean ratio, aka the golden ratio.
- The divider has been a common tool of artists and artisans since antiquity for measurements and proportions.
- All it takes to create a golden ratio caliper is to join the two arms of a divider at the golden ratio cut described in Euclid&#039;s Elements. No &quot;construction&quot; with compass and straight edge is needed, except once for the purpose of constructing the golden caliper.&lt;/ol&gt;

It does seem inconceivable that best artisans working on the most important projects of their culture would not have realized and used this, especially when the evidence exists in so many works that it was known and applied with intent and accuracy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-6224">R. Mashlan</a>.</p>
<p>Your comments are spot on:</p>
<ol>
&#8211; Euclid&#8217;s Elements was THE geometry textbook for centuries after it was written in about 300 BC, only being replaced by other geometry textbooks in modern times.<br />
&#8211; Elements has at least 10 propositions that describe the cut of extreme and mean ratio, aka the golden ratio.<br />
&#8211; The divider has been a common tool of artists and artisans since antiquity for measurements and proportions.<br />
&#8211; All it takes to create a golden ratio caliper is to join the two arms of a divider at the golden ratio cut described in Euclid&#8217;s Elements. No &#8220;construction&#8221; with compass and straight edge is needed, except once for the purpose of constructing the golden caliper.</ol>
<p>It does seem inconceivable that best artisans working on the most important projects of their culture would not have realized and used this, especially when the evidence exists in so many works that it was known and applied with intent and accuracy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: R. Mashlan		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-6224</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R. Mashlan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2021 00:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-6224</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Markowsky claiming that the Golden Ratio was not used in the many paintings of the Renaissance is definitely cynical.  I suspect that the use of golden calipers was the artist&#039;s secret weapon at the time, and was a long-lived fad.
I would suspect that a craftsman could easily build golden calipers with the technology of the time, allowing the artist to completely bypass a compass and straightedge construction,
Considering that learned artists would have studied Euclid&#039;s Elements, the premiere GEOMETRY textbook that was required study at most European universities up until the 20th century, it seems inconceivable that they would have all ignored Book VI Def. 3 and the many other constructions of the Extreme and Mean Ratio when searching for inspiration.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markowsky claiming that the Golden Ratio was not used in the many paintings of the Renaissance is definitely cynical.  I suspect that the use of golden calipers was the artist&#8217;s secret weapon at the time, and was a long-lived fad.<br />
I would suspect that a craftsman could easily build golden calipers with the technology of the time, allowing the artist to completely bypass a compass and straightedge construction,<br />
Considering that learned artists would have studied Euclid&#8217;s Elements, the premiere GEOMETRY textbook that was required study at most European universities up until the 20th century, it seems inconceivable that they would have all ignored Book VI Def. 3 and the many other constructions of the Extreme and Mean Ratio when searching for inspiration.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Splinter		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-5443</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Splinter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2020 21:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-5443</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great article, great find. Thank you for such rigid golden clarity. 

If you&#039;re not familiar with this man&#039;s work, I think you&#039;ll find it interesting or at least remarkable. Kind of represents the absolute opposite of what Markowsky tried to do by acidifying the omnipresence of a sublime principle by his sour soul. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DleAx-bxIs&#038;t=3s

and a more in depth presentation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzjM7-83LE

Thanks, a true joy to read]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, great find. Thank you for such rigid golden clarity. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re not familiar with this man&#8217;s work, I think you&#8217;ll find it interesting or at least remarkable. Kind of represents the absolute opposite of what Markowsky tried to do by acidifying the omnipresence of a sublime principle by his sour soul. </p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DleAx-bxIs&#038;t=3s" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DleAx-bxIs&#038;t=3s</a></p>
<p>and a more in depth presentation:<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzjM7-83LE" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzjM7-83LE</a></p>
<p>Thanks, a true joy to read</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gary B Meisner		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-4596</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary B Meisner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2019 17:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-4596</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-4544&quot;&gt;Remi&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for your comments, Remi. A few responses:

The disturbing thing to me about the Herodotus quote is that the validity of the quote was used to dismiss statements about the pyramids rather than the actual measurements of the pyramids.

It will could be that the 5.5 seked was used, but the question is then WHY that ratio rather than some other, especially when it is about as mathematically as close as you can get using integer numbers to the actual golden ratio.

The Parthenon is known to use many numbers and ratios, not just 16/9, and my measurements of high resolution images in my article at https://www.goldennumber.net/parthenon-phi-golden-ratio/ show proportions of design that are very closely aligned to Phi (1.618...), and nowhere near 16/9 (1.777...)

Measurements on artwork cannot &quot;prove&quot; that the golden ratio was applied by the artist, at least not without a written testimony by the artist, but repeated applications of the the golden ratio within a composition with as much accuracy as can be achieved is certainly very strong and compelling evidence. And given the evidence, one has to ask why it is logical or reasonable to assume that the artist did not apply the golden ratio. It&#039;s been known about since the time of the ancients, and was covered explicitly by Euclid in a number of his constructions in Elements, a book that one of the most translated and distributed in all of history. It was THE geometry book from which all students learned until other texts on the subject began to be written only in the past couple of centuries.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-4544">Remi</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments, Remi. A few responses:</p>
<p>The disturbing thing to me about the Herodotus quote is that the validity of the quote was used to dismiss statements about the pyramids rather than the actual measurements of the pyramids.</p>
<p>It will could be that the 5.5 seked was used, but the question is then WHY that ratio rather than some other, especially when it is about as mathematically as close as you can get using integer numbers to the actual golden ratio.</p>
<p>The Parthenon is known to use many numbers and ratios, not just 16/9, and my measurements of high resolution images in my article at <a href="https://www.goldennumber.net/parthenon-phi-golden-ratio/" rel="ugc">https://www.goldennumber.net/parthenon-phi-golden-ratio/</a> show proportions of design that are very closely aligned to Phi (1.618&#8230;), and nowhere near 16/9 (1.777&#8230;)</p>
<p>Measurements on artwork cannot &#8220;prove&#8221; that the golden ratio was applied by the artist, at least not without a written testimony by the artist, but repeated applications of the the golden ratio within a composition with as much accuracy as can be achieved is certainly very strong and compelling evidence. And given the evidence, one has to ask why it is logical or reasonable to assume that the artist did not apply the golden ratio. It&#8217;s been known about since the time of the ancients, and was covered explicitly by Euclid in a number of his constructions in Elements, a book that one of the most translated and distributed in all of history. It was THE geometry book from which all students learned until other texts on the subject began to be written only in the past couple of centuries.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Remi		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-4544</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Remi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2019 11:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-4544</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t like the role of devil&#039;s advocate, but some points of your argumentation against Markowsky need some light.
- The so-called Herodotus&#039; quote (the area of a face of Kheops equals the area of the square formed by the height) is a fake, that has nothing to do with the original Herodotus, and this is well-known today.
- Still about Kheops, it&#039;s quite easy to admit the architects used a &#039;seked&#039; of 5.5, without thinking of the golden ratio, unknown from ancient Egypt, as far as we know.
- About the Parthenon, it is now known that the main ratio used was 16/9 ths.
- About all artworks allegedly based on Phi, the accuracy  of measurements never proves anything, as far as the author does not give his purpose.
I quite appreciate the findings of Gary and others, and I&#039;m myself a Phi addict, but my own experience shew me incredible coincidences happen around the Phi phinomena.
My poor English doesn&#039;t allow me to give a full account of it, but I tried to translate some of my stuff:
http://quaternity4.blogspot.com/2016/03/46665.html
http://quaternity4.blogspot.com/2012/10/dne-ratio.html
http://perecqation.blogspot.com/2017/03/sixteen-tones.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t like the role of devil&#8217;s advocate, but some points of your argumentation against Markowsky need some light.<br />
&#8211; The so-called Herodotus&#8217; quote (the area of a face of Kheops equals the area of the square formed by the height) is a fake, that has nothing to do with the original Herodotus, and this is well-known today.<br />
&#8211; Still about Kheops, it&#8217;s quite easy to admit the architects used a &#8216;seked&#8217; of 5.5, without thinking of the golden ratio, unknown from ancient Egypt, as far as we know.<br />
&#8211; About the Parthenon, it is now known that the main ratio used was 16/9 ths.<br />
&#8211; About all artworks allegedly based on Phi, the accuracy  of measurements never proves anything, as far as the author does not give his purpose.<br />
I quite appreciate the findings of Gary and others, and I&#8217;m myself a Phi addict, but my own experience shew me incredible coincidences happen around the Phi phinomena.<br />
My poor English doesn&#8217;t allow me to give a full account of it, but I tried to translate some of my stuff:<br />
<a href="http://quaternity4.blogspot.com/2016/03/46665.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://quaternity4.blogspot.com/2016/03/46665.html</a><br />
<a href="http://quaternity4.blogspot.com/2012/10/dne-ratio.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://quaternity4.blogspot.com/2012/10/dne-ratio.html</a><br />
<a href="http://perecqation.blogspot.com/2017/03/sixteen-tones.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://perecqation.blogspot.com/2017/03/sixteen-tones.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Marty Straub		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-3107</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marty Straub]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2016 19:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-3107</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well said, Gary.  Your wonderful software, Phi Matrix, has been a very useful and revealing tool in my photography.  Not only does it help when cropping for a more pleasing composition, but it also shows how I am naturally drawn to the proportion even before cropping.  Using Phi Matrix to analyse the work of others shows that either we all know about and use the golden ratio without saying it, or there actually IS a natural proclivity we all share.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Gary.  Your wonderful software, Phi Matrix, has been a very useful and revealing tool in my photography.  Not only does it help when cropping for a more pleasing composition, but it also shows how I am naturally drawn to the proportion even before cropping.  Using Phi Matrix to analyse the work of others shows that either we all know about and use the golden ratio without saying it, or there actually IS a natural proclivity we all share.</p>
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		<title>
		By: PANAGIOTIS STEFANIDES		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-3036</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PANAGIOTIS STEFANIDES]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2016 16:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-3036</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting article.

Please refer to relevant work:

http://www.stefanides.gr/pdf/2012_Oct/PHOTO_12.pdf

http://www.stefanides.gr/pdf/2012_Oct/PHOTO_13_GEOMETRY_DESIGN.pdf

Regards from Athens,

Panagiotis Stefanides]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article.</p>
<p>Please refer to relevant work:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stefanides.gr/pdf/2012_Oct/PHOTO_12.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.stefanides.gr/pdf/2012_Oct/PHOTO_12.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.stefanides.gr/pdf/2012_Oct/PHOTO_13_GEOMETRY_DESIGN.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.stefanides.gr/pdf/2012_Oct/PHOTO_13_GEOMETRY_DESIGN.pdf</a></p>
<p>Regards from Athens,</p>
<p>Panagiotis Stefanides</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gary B Meisner		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-2822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary B Meisner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2016 09:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-2822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-2821&quot;&gt;Juan M. Mendoza&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you Juan for the supportive words. You&#039;re correct that the ratio of hypotenuse of 612.005 to the height of 481.4 is 1.2713. That is not the measure in question though. A perfect phi-based triangle has these proportions:

Base - 1
Height - Square root of Phi =  1.27201965...
Hypotenuse - Phi =  1.61803399...

So the ratio of the hypotenuse to the height AND the height to the base are both 1.27201965, the square root of two. In the Giza pyramid the ratio of the hypotenuse to the height is 1.27130 and the height to the base is 1.27390.

The variance of the Giza pyramid to the Phi pyramid is 1.27130/1.27201965 or 1.27390/1.27201965, a variance of 0.1% in both ratios. The hypotenuse of the Giza pyramid is 1.61951173 times the base, while the hypotenuse of the Phi pyramid is 1.6180339887 of it&#039;s base. This is a variance of only 0.09%.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-2821">Juan M. Mendoza</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you Juan for the supportive words. You&#8217;re correct that the ratio of hypotenuse of 612.005 to the height of 481.4 is 1.2713. That is not the measure in question though. A perfect phi-based triangle has these proportions:</p>
<p>Base &#8211; 1<br />
Height &#8211; Square root of Phi =  1.27201965&#8230;<br />
Hypotenuse &#8211; Phi =  1.61803399&#8230;</p>
<p>So the ratio of the hypotenuse to the height AND the height to the base are both 1.27201965, the square root of two. In the Giza pyramid the ratio of the hypotenuse to the height is 1.27130 and the height to the base is 1.27390.</p>
<p>The variance of the Giza pyramid to the Phi pyramid is 1.27130/1.27201965 or 1.27390/1.27201965, a variance of 0.1% in both ratios. The hypotenuse of the Giza pyramid is 1.61951173 times the base, while the hypotenuse of the Phi pyramid is 1.6180339887 of it&#8217;s base. This is a variance of only 0.09%.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Juan M. Mendoza		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-2821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juan M. Mendoza]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2016 08:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-2821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-2779&quot;&gt;Carlo Fiorentini&lt;/a&gt;.

Hello, This article is awesome and I applaud  and praise you for it, but not trying to be malicious or negative about this comment I think you have a mistake in your calculations of the ratio of the hypotenuse to the height in your pyramid portion of your article. If the height is 481.4 and the Hypotenuse is 612.005 then shouldn&#039;t the answer be 1.2713? I have checked it with several calculators and my laptop. Sorry.

JMM]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-2779">Carlo Fiorentini</a>.</p>
<p>Hello, This article is awesome and I applaud  and praise you for it, but not trying to be malicious or negative about this comment I think you have a mistake in your calculations of the ratio of the hypotenuse to the height in your pyramid portion of your article. If the height is 481.4 and the Hypotenuse is 612.005 then shouldn&#8217;t the answer be 1.2713? I have checked it with several calculators and my laptop. Sorry.</p>
<p>JMM</p>
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		<title>
		By: Carlo Fiorentini		</title>
		<link>https://www.goldennumber.net/golden-ratio-misconceptions-by-george-markowsky-reviewed/#comment-2779</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlo Fiorentini]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2016 15:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goldennumber.net/?p=8472#comment-2779</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree, setting a Phi-0.618 structure to a graphic composition (drawing, painting, plan, etc.) is like defining the rhythm on a musical partiture; it is a guideline for interpretation and perception.  Measuring deviations on the interpreted piece to try to debunk the existence of a rhythmical intention, is, to be polite, not serious,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, setting a Phi-0.618 structure to a graphic composition (drawing, painting, plan, etc.) is like defining the rhythm on a musical partiture; it is a guideline for interpretation and perception.  Measuring deviations on the interpreted piece to try to debunk the existence of a rhythmical intention, is, to be polite, not serious,</p>
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