Golden Ratio Point of the Earth

The two Phi or Golden Ratio points of the Earth based on latitude Is there a Golden Ratio point of the Earth?

It has been claimed that the Golden Ratio of the Earth is in Mecca.  (See archived website or video on  Vimeo or YouTube.)  Is this true?


Let’s first look at latitudes.  Phi to 15 places is 1.6180339887499.  There are 180 degrees between the North Pole and the South Pole, so 180 divided by Phi is 111.2461179749810.  As latitudes are expressed in degrees and distance from the Equator, we subtract 90 degrees and convert this to a latitude of 21 degrees, 14 minutes and 46.02 seconds, North or South.

The latitude of Mecca, according to Google Earth, is 21 degrees, 25 minutes and 38.56 seconds.  This puts it only 10 minutes and 52.54 seconds north of the exact northern golden ratio latitude of the Earth.  This is a variance of less about 1/10 of a percent, about 12 miles or 20 kilometers north of the exact golden ratio latitude point.


Latitudes have a clear reference point of origin that is determined by the poles defined by the Earth’s axis of rotation.  Selecting the origin point of the longitudes is not as clear as there is no single definitive reference point.  Those who claim Mecca as the Golden Ratio of point of the Earth’s longitudes base this on a Mercator projection of the Earth, to which a Golden Section has been overlayed using the PhiMatrix software available from this site:

Golden Ratio or Phi point of the Earth at Mecca using PhiMatrix software

Golden Ratio or Phi point of the Earth at Mecca based on hypotenuse of Mercator projection Golden Ratio or Phi point of the Earth at Mecca in Longitude based on Mercator projection

One could start from any longitude to get to any location, but using a world projection is a reasonable approach.  The challenge though is that there are hundreds of different renditions of world projections that vary considerably.  Here’s an example of others that produce similar results:

Golden Ratio or Phi point of the Earth - Mercator projection

Golden Ratio or Phi point of the Earth at Mecca - Peters projection

The top image is the familiar Mercator projection.  The bottom  image is a Peters projection which eliminates the bias of the Mercator to highlight the Northern hemisphere.

Rather than use an image subject to interpretation to determine the golden ratio of the latitude, perhaps it is better to use actual longitude measurements.

If you accept the premise that a world projection map that divides East and West is the right foundation, the most accurate starting longitudinal reference point would then be the midpoint between Alaska and Russia at 168 degrees, 52 minutes and 42 seconds found in the satellite photo below.  Using this as a starting point, the Golden Ratio point falls at 31 degrees, 22 minutes and 16.05 seconds, which is 938 km to the west of Mecca, which according to Google Earth is at 39 degrees, 48 minutes and 53.42 second East.  If we use mankind’s own Meridian at 180 degrees as the origin point, the Golden Ratio point is at 42 degrees, 29 minutes and 32.05 seconds, which is 298 km to the east of Mecca.  

The  image below shows the midpoint between Alaska and Russia.

The image below shows the resulting Golden Ratio points of longitude from the midpoint at left and also from the 180 degree meridian.  Click on either image to enlarge it.

Golden Ratio or Phi point of the Earth in longitude based on continental positions

An alternate way to approach this is to start at the longitude of Mecca and move a Golden Ratio of 360 degrees away (222 degrees, 29 minutes and 32.05 seconds) to see where you land.  This point is at 117 degrees, 19 minutes and 21.37 seconds West, which is inside the border of Russia as shown below.  Click on the image to enlarge.

Golden Ratio or Phi starting point of the Earth using a base at Mecca

Is Mecca at the Golden Ratio point of the Earth?  The answer is subject to interpretation.  As one who believes in God though, the author says this:

If God exists (and I have unwaivering faith He does) and wanted to make His existence known with absolute certainty He could do so in many ways.  The God I have come to know though Jesus Christ gives us a choice to accept Him, out of His love for us.  He gives us all the signs and evidence we need to sense His love and presence but always leaves enough margin for doubt so that we come to Him out of our own choice of faith and love, and not because there is no other alternative but to do so.  He loves us, and desires our love, but true love requires true choice.  He speaks to us in many ways, yet sometimes we decide to not grasp or accept the message, as noted in these scripture passages:

“The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.   Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.  There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.  Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.” Psalms 19:1-4

“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.  In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:  ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.  For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.”  Words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 13:13-16

So whether it be seeing phi in the beauty of the human form or the location of one’s holy place, may our eyes, ears, heart and mind be open to the message of our Creator and God.  Wherever the golden ratio point of the Earth may lie, these passages point to a deeper meaning yet in finding the place where our God would lead us to worship Him:

“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”  Then Jesus declared, “I who speak to you am he.”  John 4:19-26

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.”  Luke 17:20-21

References: archived website (The site is no longer active.)

Holy Mysteries video on Vimeo or YouTube.


  1. Matt says

    This is just one of the thousands of miracles of Islam and of the Quran. The fact that the golden mean point is the centre for Muslim prayer for over a thousand years, is an evidence in itself. Unlike other religions, Islam is an evidence based religion, which means its not based on emotion but on proofs and evidences. There are thousands of miracles in the Quran, the final revelation from The Creator. There are descriptions of embryology, mountain structure, cloud formation, barriers between seas and oceans, etc. all in this one book that was revealed over 1400 years ago, where modern science is just confirming these truths.

    • says

      The Quran does indeed describe a number of rather amazing scientific facts that were more advanced than the knowledge at the time of its writing. The Bible does too though. The practices for disease control described in Leviticus, which was written 3,500 years ago, were unknown scientifically and ignored until 1845. Then a young doctor named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis fought the ridicule of his peers in postulating that death rate of up to 30% of women who gave birth in hospitals could be virtually eliminated by having doctors simply wash their hands in “running water” before seeing them. Now it is a common health practice, but this was described in Leviticus 15:13. More important than that though, do not the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus Christ offer more miracles and evidence of God’s presence and revelation than the knowledge of scientific facts? Jesus said in Luke 16:31, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ All who seek spiritual knowledge and truth should read and study the scriptures of other religions to know what is unique to each, and pray for God’s grace and wisdom in discerning the truths that He wants us to know.

      • Muhammad says

        Hi all, great discussion we got goin(as expected from phi-ers), I suspect I’m late.
        Mr Meisner and some others(sorry scrolling around now would be troublesome) I’m pleased to read such knowledge of the Quran from non Muslims :). 
         I agree the Bible should also have great truths unknown to man of that time since it is also the word of God. The Quran acknowledges all prophets(also mentions there were 124,000 of them) and tells us to make no distinctions between them. Allah also tells us of holy books namely Torah and Evangeal(the Bible). Not only this but Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) had told his people that every prophet has told of his coming. This is almost proven, in the case of prophet Isa(Jesus) not only in the John 14(there are almost sound arguments against it depending on your axioms), there are many references:
        Also there was a manuscript of st Barnabas found in turkey, still there is doubt if it was his or his disciple’s which inshallah will soon be cleared up on scientific analysis(I believe it’s called carbon dating). 
        So Gary Meisner and all of you nice people please open your hearts to Islam, through all the propaganda, and you will find unfaltering truth. I have a certain affinity for knowledge seeker folks like you lot(living in these ignorance prevailent times) and hope you come closer to Allah and true success. I found Islam through analysis of the world’s systems of governance but the Quran is the universal truth and guidance for all man kind.
        Asalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh (May the peace, mercy, and blessings of Allah be with you) all.

        • says

          Thank you for your kind comments shared from a heart that loves and respects others. I speak as a Christian, one who didn’t come to faith in God until my late 30’s, and who after studying the Bible went on to read the Quran and many other scriptural writings from other religions.

          I think if we’re all completely honest, we have to admit that our beliefs are based in faith, not with certainty that one view is provable to be 100% accurate. For reasons that perhaps only our God knows, there are inconsistencies between the Bible, The Quran and other scriptures, and each contains texts within itself that can be questioned or critiqued. If God wanted our belief to be based in 100% fact and certainty rather than in letting faith overcoming doubt He could do so in many ways.

          God reveals Himself to the seeking heart, whatever it is that leads us to thirst to go deeper. My prayers and studies have led me to the truth of Christ’s teachings, and this has drawn me into a relationship with God and has changed me for the better. I do not doubt that the Quran has drawn you closer to our God as well. The common theme we should all understand and embrace is that we are to love God and love others, and not judge or hurt them. The more we understand the experiences and beliefs of others, the better we will all be, and the more we will understand about our God. I have studied the Quran. Have you also studied the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the Bible?

          • Moun says

            Greetings everyone, please understand Islam did not start with the prophet Mohammed. It started with the first human Adam and every prophet sent by God to guide humanity back to Islam.. Which is the worship of the One True Creator.Unfortunately, mankind has become experts in deception and twisting facts to match their own interests and worldly greed, so many drifted away from Islam by changing the holy books( e.g. Torah and Bible…)… Thus God sent the prophet mohammed with the Quran, to guide humanity back to islam

          • says

            Would it not be more accurate to say that God wants to guide humanity back to a relationship with Himself rather than to religion? In the Torah, the Ten Commandments in Exodus define man’s relationship to God and to one another. In the Bible, Jesus says that the greatest commandment is to ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” People of all faiths can drift from these truths but it’s quite simple in concept in both the Torah and the Bible.

    • Kielykd says

      The site of the Kabba in Mecca was for centuries a pagan place of worship. Is that what the ratio points out? Remember, the ratio of phi also perfectly discribes a pentagram. Food for thought.

      • nrnavig8r says

        I’m what I call a lowercase c catholic, which means ‘universal’. I believe there are universal truths embedded in every faith, and I believe that you are on the right track with the kaaba. It is the properly deduced phi point or omphalus ‘navel’ of the earth, Rock reverence has been around longer than any faith, and as you stated, the kaaba was a holy place for all faiths until Mohammed did his ‘turning over the tables of the money changers’ re-creation, effectively allowing only a certain group of Semites to use the ‘ball’ that belongs to the world. I wonder what factor of phi would quantify how much better the world would be if the black rock was thrown off the end of the earth like a bottle of Coke dropped amongst an indigenous tribe. (The Gods Must Be Crazy) This could be accomplished nowadays with a drone and a low-yield device to contaminate the area for longer than the world religions have been around. Or for at least as long as it takes to re-sculpt and appropriately weather all of the Bamiyan Buddhas. Or maybe just allow the rest of the world to get back in the game. While we’re on the subject, Ptah was the protector god of Memphis and sculptures, and stone/copper in general. Take another look at all the mountains and bodies of water in the general region that have ‘pt’ or ‘ph’ in them. Old linguistics stuff. And finally, while we’re on the subject, and since the medium is the message, has anyone run the numbers on the 618th day of this new century? B”^ (

  2. Toms says

    Does one need ‘such’ things to follow a religion?

    Does the Qur’an mention that Golden Mean of Earth is the Makkah?
    If Yes, then you have to prove it to be right to say that Qur’an is the Word of God.
    If No, then there is no point in trying to prove or disprove ‘such’ things.

    I believe NO is the answer.

  3. Toms says

    As far as I know, the Qur’an has got many verses speaking about Science. Many are proven to be correct.

    Some are ambiguous, I heard. Try to prove those ambiguous things to be true. Then the claim would be credible.

    • Nauman says

      Sir, very respectfully, I’ll say that ” Can u point a single verse in Qur’an PROVEN to be wrong?”. If a verse has not been proven yet, that speaks of inability of science. Considering anything to be wrong just because it is not proven yet, is not the right approach, probably.
      Bible also gives a few scientific facts. Some are right and some are proven to be wrong. Miraculously, Qur’an only confirms the right ones and either doesn’t speak about the wrong ones or clearly denies it.
      It’s always advisable to get the opinion of expert in the respective field instead of those who state a overheard fact or just make a guess out of nowhere. A classic instance of drawing the logical conclusion is in the great debate titled “Is Qur’an or Bible the word of God” between Dr. Williams Campell and Dr. Zakir Naik, the two of the greatest scholars of our time. It’s there on Peace TV Channel and may be in youtube also. Regards.

    • Moun says

      Everyone please note that there is only one version of Quran, preserved over 1400 years. No other book in history has one version existing and preserved for that long. And in the Quran, God challenges disbelievers to make a similar book or try to corrupt it. Enemies of Islam tried for more than 1400 years to change it, they couldn’t change even a single word. God promised to protect the Quran. Isn’t that enough evidence?

      • says

        The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archaeological evidence from over 2,000 years ago also provide evidence that the modern day sources for the Bible in Hebrew and Greek have changed little as well. All of these are evidence for the veracity of scripture but our beliefs are still based on faith, not proofs.

        • says

          Dead sea scroll and the bible have similar stories. I believe old and new testament were sent down by God but ultimately it was changed frequently which can be found through out the history. The bible you read was canonized in 312 A.D. in Nicea by the order of ex pagan kind Constantine. So there are verses from God and also many verses banned and many chapters taken from non divine sources e.g. Gospels, Letters of paul. but every letters of quran is preserved for the last 1500 years and it will be. Check out the miracle yourself and let me know what do you think.

  4. Kael says

    I personally found some other interesting facts in the Quran when I read it myself. Got amazed how many times god told something interesting or scientifically and always after that he says in this there will be signs for those who are wise. Some of them – from my point of view- :

    1. God mentioning creating the animals some for benefit and some as our mounts: Horses, Sheep, etc. Later on when he refer to some of them what we use as “Mount” he says that there will be some other type of “Mounts” that will be in future.(Probably mentioning our cars)

    2. Fingerprint: In one verse, god say that Prophet! The non believers will make fun to you about the resurrection day and they say how come after we die and our bodies vanishes he can resurrect us. Tell them of course we are able to resurrect them even we able to recreate their “Fingertip” (mentioning the tip of your thumbs or toes)

    3. Evolution: In many verses god say indeed we create all the living from water! In other verse he say look at the animals, some of them running, some of the jumping and some crawling etc etc, Indeed there are signs for those who are wise.

    There are many other things there which be interesting. these were a few which was interesting to me. Also I like that in these cases god always say there are sign for those who are wise. He does not say those who re my believers or followers, he tell them for those who are wise.

  5. Vijay says

    The greatest sentence that jesus said is “The kingdom of god is within you”. Period. No religion, no scriptures, no gods, no rituals nothing. He wants eveyone to reach the ultimate conciousness what he reached within himself… you call it nirvana, mukti enlightment, self-realization, god or whatever. The basis of whole indian culture is sprituality… not religion… be it kings or meager peasant.. their highest goal in life is to attain nirvana… to experience what jesus, mohamed, buddha, krishna experienced… all the holy scriptures is real only for them one who experienced it… if you strive and seek to experience… then you are spritual…. if you just want to belive or disbelive… you will just live as a islam,christ or hindu… and die without hitting the ultimate…

    • says

      Unfortunately this is a very narrow and distorted view that completely misrepresents Jesus and what he said and taught.

      No Gods? Jesus said “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.” (Matthew 22:35-41) He taught us to pray, “Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name.” (Matthew 6:9)

      No scriptures? Jesus in reference to the Old Testament scriptures said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matthew 5:17) He also said, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?” Mark 12:24

      No rituals? Jesus presented himself for baptism (Matthew 3:13), had his disciples baptize new followers and introduced communion to his disciples, “And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:9).

      Spiritual growth and enlightenment is a wonderful aspect of the human experience, but it is not found in rejecting God only to become your own god. God gives us that freedom and choice, but you will only get as far as your limited human abilities will take you instead of to the place your Creator intended you to be.

  6. Ns says

    Wow, nice discussion here! With respect to one another and with logical and testible claims:)
    Nice to see that the world is not gone completely godless as i sometimes get the feeling living in the west.
    You cant find God without a religion. He is far too complicated to grasp on your own!
    Salaam from the netherlands

    • sam says

      put the scientific facts to the side for awhile and use reasoning….adam noah abraham moses authentic jesus and muhammad all were pure monotheists…..muslims will be in line behind these prophets on judgement day…christians unfortunately will be in line on that day behind paul and constantine roman paganists who pushed a tri-god

      • says

        And unfortunately this reflects a very inaccurate understanding of Christianity. You need to understand what Jesus Christ said about God and Himself in the Gospels. Christianity would be nothing without Christ, and is not based solely on or dependent upon the writings of Paul or others who followed.

  7. Mohammad says

    My name is mohammad and i am muslem i just write my idea and never want to disturb you dear author my god is allah and he present in whole of universe in all time mecca is symbol of unified between muslem and its want to say all human have one dna and we r one plz read quran

  8. Feras says

    Hi ,
    Can you Please tell me what is the 5th pic coordination ? the one you explained it as the “the familiar Mercator projection”. It might mean Something too .
    Thanks ,
    Following north

  9. Andrew Roberts says

    What was the unit of measurement when Mecca was established and was the curvature of the Earth taken into account when it was positioned ?

    • J shabir says

      It’s nice to c people r having a nice convo debate unlike Facebook n stupid places like that.

      Just like to say as a Muslim we believe in all the scriptures bible, thora, as long as they r the original not not edit in anyway which is impossible to get hold of. we cannot b Muslim without believing in Jesus, Moses piece be on the May god b please with them
      Thank u

      • Caeli Francisco says

        Although the desert of Paran, where Ishmael dwelt, lies in present day Arabia where also Mecca is, I believe the golden ratio point is at the mountain Sinai which lies a bit north of Mecca, near Mount Paran. It is there that the God of Israel appeared to the people and commanded them to build him an ark…

        • nrnavig8r says

          Finally, somebody back to Phi. How about finding it and not getting so wrapped up in the ‘ineffable’. Like (1st book NT) Matthew 16:18 for instance. Pretty much the difference between Catholics and Protestants
          wouldn’t you say. And there’s the rock reverence again. Jesus~Horus, Peter~Ptah. Or start at the beginning (ing~lord), Genesis 1:16-18. No matter when it all went down you had the earth-1 then the sun and the moon to light it all up-1.618 give or take a meteorite or two. Or change out the hypo10noose if you like. ;^ )

  10. Muhammad Usman says

    People before I made my comments I have to say I respect all the religions so dont take it in disrespect way. The website has proved that the golden point is either 12 miles or 20 kilometers or 298 Kilometers away from Macca. Dear if I suppose that this website is absoloutely right. Since the Golden point is in Arab where the prophet P.B.U.H came not in Bethlehem, yeroshelum, America, British, city of David, birth place of Jesus. it was Arab and thats enough for any one that Allah has chosen the golden place for his prophet

    • nrnavig8r says

      Still missing the point I think. It’s not in Arabia because Allah willed it just for Islam, It’s in the al-Hejaz, which has a shared history with many groups long before any one started naming their kids Jesus or Muhammad (or Peter-me). What about Tawaf and Safa. Sound like any soft ‘f’ Greek letter you can think of. Besides it was built by the father of the Jews, who by the way have (had) as the main part of their ritual 18 (chaim/life) prayers with #16/18 as the one that makes the others possible. How about the distances in the stages relative to the black stone? Or the dimensions of the stone itself? Or the pages of the holy books themselves? phi, phi, phi. Rise above your socialization. You are (all of us are) between the mean and the extreme mean. And that’s where the phun is.

  11. Agasta Utsava says

    Quran NEVER stated in QS 5:97 that ka’bah or mecca is the CENTRE OF EARTH. When we read the arabic words, it only stated : “qiyaaman li l-nnaasi : establishmentfor the mankind or standing for the mankind. (penegakan/pemberdirian bagi umat manusia). It relates with the origin meaning of ka’bah as ANKLES. We need ankle to stand. So, it is not correct to translate “qiyaaman li l-nnaasi” as centre of mankind or centre of EARTH. Mankind and earth are two different terminology.

    To express “centre” in arabic, the appropriate words are:
    – markaz مركز
    – wustha وسط-
    – mahuwra محور
    – qalb قلب

    Every moslem should verify every news concerning quran, instead of just blindly agreeing and sharing.

    may peace be upon you

    • Moun says

      The quran mentions Prophet mohammed was sent to Meccah and all around it meaning meccah is in the golden center and all of earth and mankind is around it.

  12. Inamul Rahim says

    Brothers lisen my words Their only God i,e in Arabic Allah
    Look quran is final revelation and it speaks about past history and present and future
    If you want to believe you do in quran chapter 2 verses number 225 Allah said their is no compultion in Islam if you believe , then good for you
    Or else very bad because the matter with your lord Allah because he tooo your lord but how can you deny him
    On that day when you find him in front of you on the day of resurrection
    Then if you belive or not nothing matter
    Plz plz plz do study quran
    And it is also mention in bible and gospel itself that prophet Muhammad have to pass do follow him if you want the really successful living and worth of being humans or else our exsistance in here will be waste if every thing if we not comply with the purpose
    Please lean and thing logically if Allah wills he may open you the way of truth and light
    This is Inamul Rahim

    • says

      Can someone please state where and what the gospels speak of Muhammad? These gospels quote Jesus as saying in John 8:12, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” Other verses include John 14:6-9, in which Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. … If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. … Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” With due respect for the Quran, Islam and all believers, our understandings will be best if specific references and verses are provided.

  13. Blueminer says

    Shame on you that knew this yet want all credit to yours. Give credit to all places of information it is due. How more informative and beautiful this is than some coordinates on a globe. Coordinates that are in dispute, as far what is actually there. Right? Or not? We all will really get along better if All is represented, respected, and pick your own I’m happy for ya! THANK YOU!

    • says

      No credit is taken for presenting the idea that Mecca is at the golden ratio point. A reference to the originating website and its related video was given in the second sentence of the article. To help assure that no one misses it, this information has been posted to the end of the article as well. The analysis of the claim presented in this article, along with the illustrations, is entirely our original work.

  14. Johnny James says

    When getting into claims about scientific claims in any religious text I believe there tends to be a large amount of numerology (finding special relationships with numbers) and confirmation bias (believing strongly in claims that support your already held beliefs)

    Lets start with Mecca having a latitude fitting with the golden ratio. As pointed out in the original post depending on your level of measurement of latitude, the exact location can be a little off and it does not fit with any conventional measurement of longitude. No matter lets just assume for the moment that it does fit exactly with the golden ratio and that shows a divine influence. Well there are many other significant and probably more fantastic numbers in ancient sites of worship.

    First off if we take the Egyptian pyramids at Giza which were built several thousand years before the Koran and to this day still cause historians debate as to how people at the time could have constructed using 200 ton blocks. Leaving that aside lets look at some of the mathematics of the pyramids.

    1) The golden ratio and also the number Pi are built into the pyramids on many levels – taking note that both the golden ratio and pi were only ‘discovered’ a couple of thousands years later by the Greeks

    2) The pyramids align within 1/15th degree to true North

    3) The pyramids are built to near exactly 1/3 between the Equator and the North Pole

    4) The Great pyramids sit on a great circle (a circumference line that passes around the world) that also happens to pass through Easter Island, Nazca, and close to one degree to Angkor Wat, Persopolis and many other sites of great importance in the ancient world

    Now when you see all these claims about the pyramids what can you say? They are more fantastic than those that mecca sits at a location that matches the golden ratio are they not? Yet do you throw everything down and claim that the ancient egyptians must have had divine knowledge otherwise there is no way that the pyramids could be the way they are? Or is it more likely that if you use numerology and search long enough you are bound to find links between numbers and that by chance they will fit with certain numbers from nature?

    Secondly there are many claims that the Koran reveals scientific discoveries that were not known at the time. To look into this further as is pointed out in comments above much of the wording is open to interpretation. Secondly is this the only example of science before its time? If we look at the ancient Greeks there are several fascinating insights;

    1) Eratosthenes with no way of knowing or proving it believed the world to be round. He even conducted an experiment to measure the circumference of the earth and came very close to the actual figure

    2) Democritus proposed an atomic theory of matter even with absolutely no way of being able to prove it

    3) Anaximander proposed theories about the origin of mankind that are very close to our modern days views of evolution

    The above are 3 small examples, there are many more from the ancient Greeks and even more from Indian and Chinese writings. The point I am making here is that making predictions about the nature of the universe at a time when it was impossible to prove, that are subsequently proved accurate is not the sole preserve of the Koran and does not indicate a divine influence. Imagine if Democritus had written that God told him the world had a atomic structure? By your logic how could we prove him wrong now?

    I do not mean this post as an attack on anyone’s beliefs but if you put forward evidence under the term “science” then it must be held up against other evidence. If you have been born into a religion and its all you have ever known then I can imagine it must be difficult if people keep trying to point out inconsistencies and mistakes. But try and think why they are doing it. Perhaps coming from the outside it is easier for them not to succumb to confirmation bias and groupthink and just want you to have an open mind on what it is you believe every day.

  15. Bill says

    Math co incidence does NOT imply divinity.
    If so, mathematicians are saints already, and numbers should be treated as Angels.

    Religious scriptures cannot directly imply divinity.
    If so, everyone who read the book dont need to die/ already in heaven.

    We only know who is true, when prophets from different religions appear again on earth to tell us who is better who is not. We really cannot argue base on just the book, because God did not appear to us yet and we are not prophets.

    We try our best and let’s pray for each other.
    So that even with other people might be wrong, we all go to heaven.

  16. Sami says

    Nice to see civilized interfaith dialogue. I hope we could focus more on this specific subject.

    To avoid the map relativity issue, I used a globe, strings, and very crude measurements to obtain 1.57 at Mecca.

    I was wondering, is there an online 3D globe with a ruler function to make this calculation?

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